2022-08-02 04:00:21
就你看來,你會怎麼解釋台灣的經濟奇蹟? 在過去五十年裡,台灣經濟成功達到每年有 5% 的經濟成長。世上很少能夠有著像台灣經濟成長幅度這樣的國家,你怎麼看呢?
From your perspective, what explains the Taiwan miracle? This is now a place that has grown at 5% a year for five decades. There are very few places in the world that have managed that. What explains the Taiwan miracle?
劉德音:
從外人的角度來看,會覺得這是一個奇蹟。但對認真工作的台灣人來說,這只不過是我們在努力奮鬥的過程。老實說,相較於其他國家──尤其是在亞洲──我覺得台灣其中一個特點在於它那「和平」的社會。
從 1949 年到現在,台灣一直都是相當和平的。這是個和平的地方。而在這期間,台灣從威權主義社會轉型成民主國家,變成一個民主社會。而如果你從整個世界的角度來看這點,如此這般和平的社會轉型是相當不可思議的,我們是非常幸運的。
如果真要說奇蹟,我想台灣的確還有一點是相當與眾不同的,那就是我們的教育制度。在我還小的時候,只有 10% 的人上大學。如今有 80% 的年輕人擁有大學文憑。我們政府設立了非常多間大學,所以對於所有年輕人來說,如果你想讀大學,那一定可以讀,只要你願意花時間,所以這建立了一個相對高品質的社會環境,以面對未來可能的種種挑戰,這是我覺得非常非常特別的一點。
Looking from outside, it appears to be a miracle. For the people working hard on the island, it is just a history of fighting. I think, to be honest, compared with other nations, particularly in Asia, I think one of the key components in Taiwan is a peaceful society. It maintained peace since 1949 till today, 70 years. It's a peaceful island. And during that period of time, Taiwan has transformed from authoritarian state into a democratic state, became a democratic society. This is marvelous because if you look at the nations around the world, having such a smooth transition, peaceful transition, we are fortunate, to be honest. But if you talk about the miracles, I also think there's one thing that is very distinctly different, is the education system. When I was young, only 10% of the young people entered college or universities. Today, 80% of the young people have college or university degrees. The government set up many colleges, universities. And every kid, if you want to go to university, you can go, and just so long as you spend time. So that has created a relatively good quality of population in Taiwan, posing for any change ahead. That's why I think that's very, very special.
Fareed Zakaria:
為什麼其他人都很難做出你們所做的晶片呢? 我現在在想的是你們的七奈米,美國有非常多擁有輝煌歷史的偉大公司,像是 Intel。而中國則是撒了數十億的資金去開設晶圓廠,但都沒有辦法做出你們的晶片。
Why is it so difficult for anyone to make the chips that you make? And I'm thinking now about the 7 nanometer. The Americans have these great companies that have huge history, like Intel. The Chinese pour tens of billions of dollars into new companies. But no one can make the chips you make.
劉德音:
嗯,可以啊,只是晚幾年而已,就...哈哈哈哈...
Well, they can, just a few years later. It's ... hahaha ...
Fareed Zakaria:
但這就是重點啊...
But that's all the difference in this business.
劉德音:
沒錯,這是唯一的關鍵。我想我們是把半導體技術本身看做是一門科學,但同時也是一門生意,而不是組裝零件那樣而已。當然這一切都得歸功於與我們合作的夥伴們。我們的工程師甚至因為 COVID 而戴上 AR (擴充虛擬實境) 跟遠在荷蘭以及加州的工程師合作,我們就是這麼密切的合作,共同推進最先進的半導體技術。我只能說這麼多了,沒辦法再跟你透漏與解釋更多細節了。
You're right. That's all the difference. I think we treat the semiconductor technology itself as a business, as a science. It's not assembly workers. And, of course, I credit this to be working with our partners. Even the COVID time, our engineer used the AR, augmented reality, lenses to work with engineer in Netherland, work with engineer in California. And that's how close we work together. And together, we push the frontier of the semiconductor technologies. I cannot tell you everything why.
Fareed Zakaria:
哦當然你不可能跟我說可口可樂的配方的...哈哈...。好,最後一個問題,在技術與經濟層面上,你會怎麼看待未來? 你的願景是甚麼?
You're not going to tell me the secret formula of the Coca-Cola. Finally, tell me what you think will look like in the future, technologically, economically. What are your hopes?
劉德音:
我希望我們不會因為很接近中國而被歧視(discriminated)。不論我們跟中國的關係是甚麼,台灣就是台灣。
你得把台灣視為一個整體,視為一個充滿活力與衝勁的社會。我們希望能為世界帶來創新,持續不斷地推進未來,並且世界不會因為我們跟中國有些紛爭而害怕我們。這實在是不值得。
I hope that we don't get discriminated because we are close to China. No matter your relationship with China, Taiwan is Taiwan. You have to look at Taiwan as, by itself, a vibrant society. We want to unleash the innovation for the world, into the future, continuously, and not to be scared because we have some dispute with our neighbors. And that is not worth it.
Fareed Zakaria:
這你這樣好像是在跟世界說 ── 如果我理解錯誤請糾正我 ── 不需要害怕中國所說的那些話,因為中國永遠不可能接手台灣。台灣經濟是建立於全球合作,建立於信任與公開透明之上。倘若如果他們侵入接手台灣,會發現實際上他們甚麼也得不到。
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